I do know that NASA has determined that these icecaps grow and shrink on a regular basis showing both short term and long term cycles (the icecap edges show these changes much like old shore lines do). What could possibly be causing these cycles? I am wondering if there is a correlation between temperature signatures and icecap cycles on Mars with what has been measured here on Earth. I sure wish we had a rover that would head over there to collect ice core samples. Wouldn’t it be interesting if we find correlations all over the place? If correlations are found, it would be very hard to continue the argument for man-made causes re: temperature change.

As has been suggested, Francis is taking quite a bit of liberty in determining what is “normal.” Implicitly, she is saying that normal is what the satellites measured between 1979 and 2000. She would not be correct if we took the years 2000-2006 to be normal. Plus, we have enough ancedotal evidence to suggest that 1979-2000 levels have not been consistently normal over the past couple of centuries.

When I hear John Coleman say that “The Arctic is back to normal,” I understand that to be an approximate statement that in essence reflects the general conditions. I believe everyone who follows global ice realizes that the much of the ice is new. It is reported not to be thinner in all places. Also an interesting note: there are places around the Bering Sea now covered in ice that were actually ice-free in 1980.

Let us remember that some scientists have said that Artic Ice will be gone by 2013. Let us see whether Coleman’s statement turns out to be more accurate than that projection.

For those that take hope in news of Southern Hemispheric ice is expansion: a a colder climate most likely not a desired outcome for the human race.

What do you know about Martian ice caps?

I’m not really qualified to discuss ice caps on other planets in depth, (not that I’m qualified to discuss much of anything in depth) but I will comment that concerning Mars I have read that the recent south polar melting has been accounted for by observed albedo change.

(sorry about the multiple posts above I will know to be more patient in the future.)

Off topic but vaguely related to our conversation:

Some folks here may be interested in these reviews of a paper that came out in Geophysical Research Letters this week concerning the poor performance of climate models in Antarctica.

http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2008/antarctica.jsp

(If this is a duplicate post I apologize. My last posts seemed to disappear. I have not been here long enough to know if I should just be patient. Or a spam filter is blocking my links.)

Please discuss the icecaps on other planets in light of our own icecaps and your understanding of the cause of recent thinning on these other planets. Mars would be a good place to start.

Off topic but vaguely related to our conversation:

Some folks here may be interested in these reviews of a paper that came out in Geophysical Research Letters this week concerning the poor performance of climate models in Antarctica.

I provide 2 spins on it:

http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2008/antarctica.jsp

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/bromsnow.htm

(If this is a duplicate post I apologize. My last post seemed to disappear. I have not been here long enough to know if I should just be patient.)

Off topic but vaguely related to our conversation:

Some folks here may be interested in these reviews of a paper that came out in Geophysical Research Letters this week concerning the poor performance of climate models in Antarctica.

I provide 2 spins on it (neither of which are harsh. I am sure some blogger will rant about it):

http://www.ucar.edu/news/releases/2008/antarctica.jsp

http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/bromsnow.htm

Normal????? Normal for what, the last 30 years? How can anyone claim that 30 years out of a 4 billion year history tells us what is normal. I recall an article on this blog or over at junkscience.com about the early 1900′s Arctic having so little ice that ships were able to sail through the Northwest passage. Perhaps we should take our “average sea ice” calculations back that far.