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	<title>Comments on: Fun with Thermometers</title>
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		<title>By: The parking lot effect: measurement bias of locations &#171; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-15649</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The parking lot effect: measurement bias of locations &#171; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 17:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[...] is an update on recent field tests with remote thermometers (see the ”Fun with Thermometers” post for  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is an update on recent field tests with remote thermometers (see the ”Fun with Thermometers” post for  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dsmith</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-13228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dsmith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 00:03:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[You have heard of evaporative cooling from plants, right?  The point is not so much the shading from large trees, its the cooling in the evening hours as plants release water from photosynthesis.  It&#039;s quite obvious is drier locales that are heavily shaded by large older trees versus open areas with lots of concrete/blacktop or rock (granite/basalts/gravels/sand).  Human habitation (as a source of  thermal anomaly as the shift from &#039;&#039;natural&#039; vegetation density/type to locale.

Best place to measure would be nonperturbed environments; ain&#039;t gonna be easy to find.  And it is worthwhile to measure thermal trends in non-natural environments.  Consider the difference in evening desert thermal regimes in say, downtown Las Vegas (roof top or street paved surfaces) and fifty miles away in rural desert setting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have heard of evaporative cooling from plants, right?  The point is not so much the shading from large trees, its the cooling in the evening hours as plants release water from photosynthesis.  It&#8217;s quite obvious is drier locales that are heavily shaded by large older trees versus open areas with lots of concrete/blacktop or rock (granite/basalts/gravels/sand).  Human habitation (as a source of  thermal anomaly as the shift from &#8221;natural&#8217; vegetation density/type to locale.</p>
<p>Best place to measure would be nonperturbed environments; ain&#8217;t gonna be easy to find.  And it is worthwhile to measure thermal trends in non-natural environments.  Consider the difference in evening desert thermal regimes in say, downtown Las Vegas (roof top or street paved surfaces) and fifty miles away in rural desert setting.</p>
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		<title>By: dscott</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12871</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dscott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12871</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One would think that over time the sum total vectors of wind direction would equal zero on an annual basis since each season has a prevailing wind direction.  Which means seasonal temperature is dependent also on prevailing wind direction.  I believe this is an important point missed in the discussion since the atmospheric temperature is dependent on wind to convect heat away from the surface.  The slower the wind, the greater the heat build up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One would think that over time the sum total vectors of wind direction would equal zero on an annual basis since each season has a prevailing wind direction.  Which means seasonal temperature is dependent also on prevailing wind direction.  I believe this is an important point missed in the discussion since the atmospheric temperature is dependent on wind to convect heat away from the surface.  The slower the wind, the greater the heat build up.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Gosselin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12862</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pierre Gosselin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12862</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For every cold, snowy incident us skeptics point to, the alarmists can still always come with &quot;Yeah, but look at the blah blah blah&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For every cold, snowy incident us skeptics point to, the alarmists can still always come with &#8220;Yeah, but look at the blah blah blah&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Gosselin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12861</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pierre Gosselin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff B.
I&#039;ve read it. He was quite general about it.  Just another guy with nothing really new chiming in with the Ice Age scare. 
The more I think about all this, the more I believe we have to watch what the oceans do. How the oceans react will tell us what&#039;s in the pipeline, and will confirm solar correlations. Temperatures have been dropping slowly, but not alarmingly.
Many climate signals are still mixed.  The AGW alarmists still have enough melting, weather anomalies, changes, warm records at their hands to keep their story going for quite some time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff B.<br />
I&#8217;ve read it. He was quite general about it.  Just another guy with nothing really new chiming in with the Ice Age scare.<br />
The more I think about all this, the more I believe we have to watch what the oceans do. How the oceans react will tell us what&#8217;s in the pipeline, and will confirm solar correlations. Temperatures have been dropping slowly, but not alarmingly.<br />
Many climate signals are still mixed.  The AGW alarmists still have enough melting, weather anomalies, changes, warm records at their hands to keep their story going for quite some time.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Vance</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12852</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harold Vance]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 04:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is off-topic for your post, but today in the Houston Chronicle, Eric Berger posted a story to the effect that CSU is thinking about ending support for William Gray&#039;s hurricane forecasts. The excuse proffered by CSU is that &quot;handling the media inquiries... requires too much time and detracts from efforts to promote other professors&#039; work.&quot;

Here is the URL:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5736103.html

It&#039;s just hard to imagine a university actually complaining about getting too much national and world recognition. lol.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is off-topic for your post, but today in the Houston Chronicle, Eric Berger posted a story to the effect that CSU is thinking about ending support for William Gray&#8217;s hurricane forecasts. The excuse proffered by CSU is that &#8220;handling the media inquiries&#8230; requires too much time and detracts from efforts to promote other professors&#8217; work.&#8221;</p>
<p>Here is the URL:<br />
<a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5736103.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5736103.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s just hard to imagine a university actually complaining about getting too much national and world recognition. lol.</p>
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		<title>By: davidsmith1</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12847</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[davidsmith1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:08:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Today we had a north wind and full sunshine. The two backyard thermometers recorded only a 1F difference in maximum temperature, versus the 5F to nearly 10F of last week.

The difference is that last week the wind was from the southeast. Why does that matter?

Well, the layout of adjacent parts of my backyard, which can&#039;t be seen from the camera, is here:

http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/0428081.jpg

What this shows is that, when the wind is southeast, the breeze travels over about 50 feet of sunlit concrete, through a breezeway and across a brown wooden deck in a manner that probably swirls to the right. Pass that warmed, weakened breeze across the darker compost and bricks beneath the sensor and I suspect that a +5F local temperature rise resulted.

On the other hand, when the wind is northerly it travels across my neighbor&#039;s grass backyard, through about 20 feet feet of shade and then across 10 feet of low vegetation. That&#039;s a zero-concrete &quot;cool&quot; path.

This backyard comparison is simply an exercise, but it suggests the contamination possible by placing temperature sensors too close to human habitation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today we had a north wind and full sunshine. The two backyard thermometers recorded only a 1F difference in maximum temperature, versus the 5F to nearly 10F of last week.</p>
<p>The difference is that last week the wind was from the southeast. Why does that matter?</p>
<p>Well, the layout of adjacent parts of my backyard, which can&#8217;t be seen from the camera, is here:</p>
<p><a href="http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/0428081.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://davidsmith1.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/0428081.jpg</a></p>
<p>What this shows is that, when the wind is southeast, the breeze travels over about 50 feet of sunlit concrete, through a breezeway and across a brown wooden deck in a manner that probably swirls to the right. Pass that warmed, weakened breeze across the darker compost and bricks beneath the sensor and I suspect that a +5F local temperature rise resulted.</p>
<p>On the other hand, when the wind is northerly it travels across my neighbor&#8217;s grass backyard, through about 20 feet feet of shade and then across 10 feet of low vegetation. That&#8217;s a zero-concrete &#8220;cool&#8221; path.</p>
<p>This backyard comparison is simply an exercise, but it suggests the contamination possible by placing temperature sensors too close to human habitation.</p>
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		<title>By: DR</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12846</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 00:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those interested in uncertainty, a link to free software to play with:
http://www.isgmax.com/uncertainty_freeware.htm]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested in uncertainty, a link to free software to play with:<br />
<a href="http://www.isgmax.com/uncertainty_freeware.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.isgmax.com/uncertainty_freeware.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eduardo Carreras</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12840</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Eduardo Carreras]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12840</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re:  Very Damaging to the AGW crowd.

All periods of low solar activity have been named (Sporer, Maunder, Dalton, Kristen...).  How about we name the current one &quot;The Gore Minimum.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Very Damaging to the AGW crowd.</p>
<p>All periods of low solar activity have been named (Sporer, Maunder, Dalton, Kristen&#8230;).  How about we name the current one &#8220;The Gore Minimum.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Taylor</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Doug Taylor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Doug and DR--Excellent brief exposition of measurement theory and near earth temperature measurements.   We should continue this discussion,  and how it affects climate model predictions.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug and DR&#8211;Excellent brief exposition of measurement theory and near earth temperature measurements.   We should continue this discussion,  and how it affects climate model predictions.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff B.</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12838</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeff B.]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Anyone seen &lt;a href=&quot;http://icecap.us/images/uploads/ANURGENTSIGNALFORTHECOMINGICEAGE.pdf&quot; title=&quot;Peter Harris&#039; paper at ICECAP?&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;   Very damaging to the AGW crowd.&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone seen <a href="http://icecap.us/images/uploads/ANURGENTSIGNALFORTHECOMINGICEAGE.pdf" title="Peter Harris' paper at ICECAP?" rel="nofollow">   Very damaging to the AGW crowd.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pierre Gosselin</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12835</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pierre Gosselin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:55:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12835</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the delivery time David.
2 weeks! Darn it! 
So I won&#039;t get it for my birthday tomorrow. ;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the delivery time David.<br />
2 weeks! Darn it!<br />
So I won&#8217;t get it for my birthday tomorrow. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: DR</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12828</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[DR]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12828</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with Doug on the subject of calibration as I too have an extensive background in metrology.

When error bars are reported for surface temperatures, it makes me cringe. Our climate controlled labs don&#039;t have the uncertainty claimed by climate &quot;scientists&quot;. 

Doug is also correct in saying:
&quot;Unfortunately assurances are costly but errors should be known and stated or they will be exploited by those who need to support some issue other than the science.&quot;

All sources of error must be identified before before reporting the uncertainty. It is not an easy task, but the integrity of the data relies on correct calculations of the uncertainty. And true as well, the data can be exploited.   Honestly, the idea that wind balances out the UHI/microsite issues (Parker et al) is completely laughable to those of us in the real world of the science of measurement (metrology). It seems Pielke and a few others (obviously Anthony Watts) are the only ones who fully understand this concept. Common sense goes a long way for certain things in this world, and it doesn&#039;t take a PhD to see them. 

Now we have NOAA on the one hand announcing a renovation of the surface station network, which is good, but on the other they say all the previous records have been &quot;statistically corrected&quot;.  Surely they must have been blushing when making that statement.

I have little doubt Doug and Retired Engineer would agree if in our fields we turned in a study using the same sloppy methods used by climate &quot;science&quot;, we&#039;d be out on the street.

There are lies, damned lies, and temperature records :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Doug on the subject of calibration as I too have an extensive background in metrology.</p>
<p>When error bars are reported for surface temperatures, it makes me cringe. Our climate controlled labs don&#8217;t have the uncertainty claimed by climate &#8220;scientists&#8221;. </p>
<p>Doug is also correct in saying:<br />
&#8220;Unfortunately assurances are costly but errors should be known and stated or they will be exploited by those who need to support some issue other than the science.&#8221;</p>
<p>All sources of error must be identified before before reporting the uncertainty. It is not an easy task, but the integrity of the data relies on correct calculations of the uncertainty. And true as well, the data can be exploited.   Honestly, the idea that wind balances out the UHI/microsite issues (Parker et al) is completely laughable to those of us in the real world of the science of measurement (metrology). It seems Pielke and a few others (obviously Anthony Watts) are the only ones who fully understand this concept. Common sense goes a long way for certain things in this world, and it doesn&#8217;t take a PhD to see them. </p>
<p>Now we have NOAA on the one hand announcing a renovation of the surface station network, which is good, but on the other they say all the previous records have been &#8220;statistically corrected&#8221;.  Surely they must have been blushing when making that statement.</p>
<p>I have little doubt Doug and Retired Engineer would agree if in our fields we turned in a study using the same sloppy methods used by climate &#8220;science&#8221;, we&#8217;d be out on the street.</p>
<p>There are lies, damned lies, and temperature records :)</p>
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		<title>By: dscott</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12827</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dscott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 17:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12827</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I find it curious that the deep shade was a degree warmer at night, was this an artifact of calibration?  Were both sensors reading the same temperature before you placed them?  Otherwise this might be an example of radiational cooling at night, where the overhead trees are acting like cloud cover reflecting the IR back to the ground or possibly reducing convection.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it curious that the deep shade was a degree warmer at night, was this an artifact of calibration?  Were both sensors reading the same temperature before you placed them?  Otherwise this might be an example of radiational cooling at night, where the overhead trees are acting like cloud cover reflecting the IR back to the ground or possibly reducing convection.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Urbinto</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/27/fun-with-thermometers/#comment-12823</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sam Urbinto]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 15:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=1144#comment-12823</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and it might be more appropriate to get the USB2 model, as it also tracks relative humidity and dew point.  

The interesting thing though is the level of accuracy of both.  

The temperature accuracy is +/- 1 F  Which is also the internal resolution.  That&#039;s the USB2.

The USB1 is a resolution of 1 F also, but the accuracy is +/- 2 F   

So today&#039;s mean of 55 and tomorrow&#039;s mean of 56 might actually be backwards or the same or ?

&lt;strong&gt;REPLY:&lt;/strong&gt; The inexpensive solid state sensor has it&#039;s limits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and it might be more appropriate to get the USB2 model, as it also tracks relative humidity and dew point.  </p>
<p>The interesting thing though is the level of accuracy of both.  </p>
<p>The temperature accuracy is +/- 1 F  Which is also the internal resolution.  That&#8217;s the USB2.</p>
<p>The USB1 is a resolution of 1 F also, but the accuracy is +/- 2 F   </p>
<p>So today&#8217;s mean of 55 and tomorrow&#8217;s mean of 56 might actually be backwards or the same or ?</p>
<p><strong>REPLY:</strong> The inexpensive solid state sensor has it&#8217;s limits.</p>
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