thank you,

ulrich

REPLY: Unfortunately I am unable to move comments due to limits in the software, the on;y way they can show up on the right thread is for you to copy/paste and resubmit there.

under the thread “Does Solar Variability affect Climate”, one conclusion was: “Scientists have produced further compelling evidence showing that
modern-day climate change is not caused by changes in the Sun’s
activity.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/7327393.stm

Looks like another denialist claim shot down with data.”

This prompted me to respond with the following (it will be interesting to see if this contribution is accepted):

“To describe the sun’s contribution to climate change since time immemorial as “a denialist’s claim shot down by data” is an absurd statement, not worthy of a supposedly august forum like this one. Quite apart from Singer’s publications and presentations, there is a huge body of literature, including peer-reviewed, on the correlation of the earth’s climate system with continuously changing solar parameters. Some of the entry portals have already been mentioned in this thread and a simple Internet search will lead you in the right direction.

Remember, CO2 is a trace gas crucial for photosynthesis (and green houses are known to produce excellent crops at elevated CO2 concentrations); 1934 is the well-documented warmest year of the past 150; there has been slight cooling since 1998 (more pronounced since 2004 – see new satellite data), and much more. And yes, as everybody can check (below) after surviving an exceptionally harsh winter: Northern Hemisphere Sea Ice Area is ahead substantially from a year ago and close to the mean from 1979 – 2000, whereas Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice is considerably above the same mean…

Example for North: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.365.jpg – Southern and global data are also there.

As an aside: the colonization of Greenland by the Vikings and Alpine Glaciers that had receded much farther than currently are deniers’ illusions? as are the Little Ice Age and the year without summer (1816), since Mann’s careful and universally applicable data proved that these climate events could never have happened…?

Are you willing to take credit for the likely global cooling of the near future, together with Al Gore? The particulate load from new not-so-clean coal plants may soon be rivalling well-documented volcanic contributions to the mitigation of solar inputs…

All this does not mean that one should burn fossil fuels with unbridled abandon. But look at the emerging land use and food cost catastrophe built on an out-of-control biofuel craze! Isn’t it time to move toward a differentiated approach to natural resource usage and conservation, to strive toward living in harmony with the constantly changing metabolism of Earth? Isn’t it time to re-evaluate arrogant attitudes like “Save the Planet” and learn to understand what’s truly going on? Isn’t it time to step away from the polarizing debates between Hot Heads and to stop creating all that new Hot Air?

Is it not time to check the data a bit more carefully, including the often sloppy practices of measuring and recording terrestrial temperatures? Please study other relevant blogs (such as Climate Science, Watt’s up with that, ICECAP and others) with an objective mind before denouncing the solar information as denialist claptrap…

respectfully,

UL

(my credentials: independent oceanographer specializing in deep-sea imaging, holding a broad US Patent on aquatic habitat health using biomonitoring methods)”

Given statements such as “Looks like another denialist claim shot down with data”, it’s difficult to refrain from cynicism. I’ll try harder while elucidating certain experimental oceanographic approaches in my new blog – deepslope – coming soon to wordpress.com

I really appreciate the great work, Anthony!

ulrich

Hey, don’t abandon all of Canada! I agree, the Landscheidt Minimum is nigh but cereal grains will remain North of the 48th, although I’m not sure the Mennonites (Fort Vermilion, Alberta, Canada) that won best ‘red spring wheat’ at the Chicago World Fair in the 18th century will be even getting a good crop of green feed at the 58th parallel in 10 years.

… but Winterpeg will no longer be the center of Canadian Soy production because even the summers will be cool, canola will be all we can grow. Lower grades of corn will be questionable, #1 Wheat will be confined to the absolute southern Canadian Praries, Niagra Penninsula and Acadian fruit production will cease (BC will be OK due to microclimate) ….

So, not the end of the world, but I think Archibald’s thesis that you can just drive 2 hours north (100 miles) to your new climatic conditions pretty well matches the Maunder Minimum experience from the paintings I’ve looked at ;)

P.S. apologies if I have not submitted the links properly

It will also mean the flight from suburbia and isolated houses because of security reasons and heating reasons too. It is not by accident that villages came to be with people huddled together in small rooms.

The bird flu will love global cooling.

In a sense, we have probably been toying with the threshold since the late 1700s. We could get pushed over the edge any time.

If the cooling prevails, the economic squeeze will take us to an environment of scarcity rather than the one of plenty we have lived through the last decades.
This means grandmother’s tips on parsimony and making ends meet and using leftovers for a fancy name meal have to also be recalled.

It will also mean the flight from suburbia and isolated houses because of security reasons and heating reasons too. It is not by accident that villages came to be with people huddled together in small rooms.

I am keeping my fingers crossed for a “reasonable cooling” that will stop the AGW stampede without destroying our life rhythms. The two next winters may do it.

The colder climate will affect Canadian and Russian wheat production. Fruit orchards that have marched northward during global warming will freeze. Heating and industrial fuel will be hard to find this time around since oil isn’t sweet anymore. Any kind of animal or vegetable production north of the 45th parallel will likely be reduced due to short and harsh growing seasons.

Invest in wheat futures here in the US because we will once again be supplying the world with bread. Invest in southern climate fruit production (and learn to like the taste and texture of winter apples). Buy a sheep herd and learn how to shear wool. Cotton will be king once again because ALL oil will go for heating and industry, not clothes. Invest in wood heat if you are lucky. Wind energy may not work so well since cold climates reduce wind. Solar panels may be a bust but don’t throw them away just yet. If you plant a garden, plant short season crops and learn how to preserve food since transportation of food from one part of the country to another will be VERY expensive due to fuel prices (see comment about sweet oil above). Learn how to build greenhouses. Try to remember EVERYTHING your grandmother taught you about anything at all.

Clearly the CO2 concentration at Mona Loa has some sort of an effect on the Solar Cycle.