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	<title>Comments on: NOAA Newsflash &#8211; It was cold this winter!</title>
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	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/</link>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-9035</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 06:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-9035</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;I became aware of the “record” problem when I was a freshman at a relatively new high school, only 4 years old when I started attending.&lt;/i&gt;

Wow, you were quite the advanced young tot!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I became aware of the “record” problem when I was a freshman at a relatively new high school, only 4 years old when I started attending.</i></p>
<p>Wow, you were quite the advanced young tot!</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8601</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[MattN:  I&#039;m no expert (Kristen B. may well be, see the La Nina thread sticking around thread) but these ENSO forecasts seem to be &#039;for jollies&#039;.  Kristen indicated that the warming off S. America is seasonal and La Nina will regain momentum next fall.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MattN:  I&#8217;m no expert (Kristen B. may well be, see the La Nina thread sticking around thread) but these ENSO forecasts seem to be &#8216;for jollies&#8217;.  Kristen indicated that the warming off S. America is seasonal and La Nina will regain momentum next fall.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MattN</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8592</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MattN]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Somone who knows more than me check out this ENSO forecast:

http://attachments.climatepatrol.com/53/sstsa_080872.gif

If I read this correctly, we&#039;re forecast to have La Nina all year.  Yes/no?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somone who knows more than me check out this ENSO forecast:</p>
<p><a href="http://attachments.climatepatrol.com/53/sstsa_080872.gif" rel="nofollow">http://attachments.climatepatrol.com/53/sstsa_080872.gif</a></p>
<p>If I read this correctly, we&#8217;re forecast to have La Nina all year.  Yes/no?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alan D. McIntire</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan D. McIntire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 21:15:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I became aware of the “record” problem when I was a freshman at a relatively new high school, only 4 years old when I started attending. Naturally, there were a lot of school records being set each year in various sports. The first year, there’s automatically going to be a new school record in every event measured. Assuming a relatively constant number and relative ability of students each year, the second year about half of the old records will be broken, the third year about 1/3 of the records will be broken, and now that my old high school is about 40 years old, only about 2 1/2 % of school records will be broken in a year. In general, the precentage of records being broken is proportional to the logarithm of the time period.

If temperature records in the US go back to 1880, roughly 1 in 128 should be broken each year. For a given date, roughly 1 in (128 *365) or 1 in 46,720 should be broken for each date of the year, assuming no trends. With a warming trend, new highs should be somewhat more frequent than that, with a cooling trend, less frequent than that.

Here I’m guessing, but I suppose the number of new records with a constantly increasing temperature trend should be rougly proportional to
time / (1 - (T/SD))
where SD is the standard deviation in temperature
from year to year, say about 0.1 degrees, and
T is the linear trend fit, say 0.01 degrees per year.

In my example, if the world was warming up at 1C per century, and the standard deviation in temperature is 0.1 C per year, you’d expect 10/9
as many records as the logarithmic prediction.

With constantly decreasing temperatures, again
given the above figures, you’d get only 9/10 as many new highs as a strictly logarithmic projection- 

Since the real climate shows increasing from 1880 to 1940, decreasing from 1940 to about 1970, and increasing again from about 1970 to 2000, fudge factor adustments for new records will be slightly more complex than that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I became aware of the “record” problem when I was a freshman at a relatively new high school, only 4 years old when I started attending. Naturally, there were a lot of school records being set each year in various sports. The first year, there’s automatically going to be a new school record in every event measured. Assuming a relatively constant number and relative ability of students each year, the second year about half of the old records will be broken, the third year about 1/3 of the records will be broken, and now that my old high school is about 40 years old, only about 2 1/2 % of school records will be broken in a year. In general, the precentage of records being broken is proportional to the logarithm of the time period.</p>
<p>If temperature records in the US go back to 1880, roughly 1 in 128 should be broken each year. For a given date, roughly 1 in (128 *365) or 1 in 46,720 should be broken for each date of the year, assuming no trends. With a warming trend, new highs should be somewhat more frequent than that, with a cooling trend, less frequent than that.</p>
<p>Here I’m guessing, but I suppose the number of new records with a constantly increasing temperature trend should be rougly proportional to<br />
time / (1 &#8211; (T/SD))<br />
where SD is the standard deviation in temperature<br />
from year to year, say about 0.1 degrees, and<br />
T is the linear trend fit, say 0.01 degrees per year.</p>
<p>In my example, if the world was warming up at 1C per century, and the standard deviation in temperature is 0.1 C per year, you’d expect 10/9<br />
as many records as the logarithmic prediction.</p>
<p>With constantly decreasing temperatures, again<br />
given the above figures, you’d get only 9/10 as many new highs as a strictly logarithmic projection- </p>
<p>Since the real climate shows increasing from 1880 to 1940, decreasing from 1940 to about 1970, and increasing again from about 1970 to 2000, fudge factor adustments for new records will be slightly more complex than that.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Gulrud</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8374</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gary Gulrud]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Science is being savaged, by people who claim to be scientists.&quot;

I second Kim&#039;s eloquent assessment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Science is being savaged, by people who claim to be scientists.&#8221;</p>
<p>I second Kim&#8217;s eloquent assessment.</p>
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		<title>By: steven mosher</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8319</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[steven mosher]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 02:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Philip B.  You can get daily data from ushcn or ghcn. 

 if google is not your friend then write again and I&#039;ll hunt up the direct linakge
for you]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip B.  You can get daily data from ushcn or ghcn. </p>
<p> if google is not your friend then write again and I&#8217;ll hunt up the direct linakge<br />
for you</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Hall</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This article in Climate Science explains what high temperatures are the only important metric in establishing whether long-term warming is occurring:

http://climatesci.org/2008/02/14/important-summary-abstract-by-professor-richard-t-mcnider-of-the-university-of-alabama-at-huntsville/

Furthermore, over the past decade in the U.S., almost no new statewide &lt;b&gt;monthly&lt;/b&gt; high records have been established.

http://hallofrecord.blogspot.com/2008/02/2007-monthly-us-high-temperature.html

True, some &lt;b&gt;daily&lt;/b&gt; record high temperatures have been established, but many of them are tying old records set decades ago.  NOAA takes away records previously established and credits the most recent year with the record in the event of ties.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article in Climate Science explains what high temperatures are the only important metric in establishing whether long-term warming is occurring:</p>
<p><a href="http://climatesci.org/2008/02/14/important-summary-abstract-by-professor-richard-t-mcnider-of-the-university-of-alabama-at-huntsville/" rel="nofollow">http://climatesci.org/2008/02/14/important-summary-abstract-by-professor-richard-t-mcnider-of-the-university-of-alabama-at-huntsville/</a></p>
<p>Furthermore, over the past decade in the U.S., almost no new statewide <b>monthly</b> high records have been established.</p>
<p><a href="http://hallofrecord.blogspot.com/2008/02/2007-monthly-us-high-temperature.html" rel="nofollow">http://hallofrecord.blogspot.com/2008/02/2007-monthly-us-high-temperature.html</a></p>
<p>True, some <b>daily</b> record high temperatures have been established, but many of them are tying old records set decades ago.  NOAA takes away records previously established and credits the most recent year with the record in the event of ties.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aaron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like I&#039;ve said before, I really want to see an analysis of just the lows.  I want to see every data point thrown out except the data points immediately preceded and followed by a higher temperature.  Take that and &lt;b&gt;then&lt;/b&gt; perform an analysis.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like I&#8217;ve said before, I really want to see an analysis of just the lows.  I want to see every data point thrown out except the data points immediately preceded and followed by a higher temperature.  Take that and <b>then</b> perform an analysis.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip_B</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8287</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip_B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8287</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: Temperature records

A running average of record high - record low temperature records (for each calendar day or day in each month) for a selected set of stations would make an interesting metric with lots of data points. In the stock market this kind of metric is considered a measure of recent momentum up or down.

Any ideas where the data could be sourced from?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Temperature records</p>
<p>A running average of record high &#8211; record low temperature records (for each calendar day or day in each month) for a selected set of stations would make an interesting metric with lots of data points. In the stock market this kind of metric is considered a measure of recent momentum up or down.</p>
<p>Any ideas where the data could be sourced from?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8278</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[aaron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 09:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Global warming isn&#039;t about very high highs and very low lows, it&#039;s about very slightly higher lows and slightly less than imperceptibly higher highs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Global warming isn&#8217;t about very high highs and very low lows, it&#8217;s about very slightly higher lows and slightly less than imperceptibly higher highs.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bruce Hall</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8274</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bruce Hall]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8274</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ed,

The arguments have been made that we should expect many more extreme high temperature records, but that hasn&#039;t really been the case in the U.S. for the past decade.  Therefore, the argument has been made that we should be experiencing higher low temperatures, but that hasn&#039;t been happening for the past decade.

Now GW apologists are saying that bitterly cold weather with a lot of snow is the result of global warming.

It seems that if there is a contra-indicator to warming, it must be caused by warming... because it must be warming.

I suggest you go over to Climate Science and read what Roger Pielke has published recently... to wit: global warming should be indicated by an increased frequency of high temperature records.  Cold is, indeed, a contra-indicator to warming.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed,</p>
<p>The arguments have been made that we should expect many more extreme high temperature records, but that hasn&#8217;t really been the case in the U.S. for the past decade.  Therefore, the argument has been made that we should be experiencing higher low temperatures, but that hasn&#8217;t been happening for the past decade.</p>
<p>Now GW apologists are saying that bitterly cold weather with a lot of snow is the result of global warming.</p>
<p>It seems that if there is a contra-indicator to warming, it must be caused by warming&#8230; because it must be warming.</p>
<p>I suggest you go over to Climate Science and read what Roger Pielke has published recently&#8230; to wit: global warming should be indicated by an increased frequency of high temperature records.  Cold is, indeed, a contra-indicator to warming.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger Carr</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger Carr]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 02:27:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Philip_B:  &lt;i&gt;BTW, the current ‘record heatwave; in Australia is restricted...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

And being right in that designated hot-spot (the sound of the F1 cars limbering up for tomorrow&#039;s first race of the season at Albert Park filtering through the window) leaves much to be desired. &lt;i&gt;Oh to be in England... or America...&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philip_B:  <i>BTW, the current ‘record heatwave; in Australia is restricted&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>And being right in that designated hot-spot (the sound of the F1 cars limbering up for tomorrow&#8217;s first race of the season at Albert Park filtering through the window) leaves much to be desired. <i>Oh to be in England&#8230; or America&#8230;</i></p>
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		<title>By: fatfinch</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fatfinch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Mar 2008 01:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you Arthur.  We saved it.  Or, should I say, &lt;i&gt;We saved it./i&gt;

Plus we can add our blog link:  &lt;a href=&quot;http://fatfinch.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; fatfinch&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Arthur.  We saved it.  Or, should I say, <i>We saved it./i&gt;</p>
<p>Plus we can add our blog link:  <a href="http://fatfinch.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow"> fatfinch</a></i></p>
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		<title>By: Ed Darrell</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8258</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ed Darrell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Colder than average:  Isn&#039;t that what we should expect from global &quot;warming,&quot; when additional energy in the atmosphere gives higher highs, &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; lower lows?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Colder than average:  Isn&#8217;t that what we should expect from global &#8220;warming,&#8221; when additional energy in the atmosphere gives higher highs, <i>and</i> lower lows?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Philip_B</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/03/13/noaa-newsflash-it-was-cold-in-this-winter/#comment-8252</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Philip_B]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=871#comment-8252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The USA versus RoW difference was mostly a NH versus SH difference, which largely dissapeared in February as the SH &#039;caught up&#039; with the NH cooling.

BTW, the current &#039;record heatwave; in Australia is restricted to a smallish area of the south coast and is due to heavy rains across the interior.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The USA versus RoW difference was mostly a NH versus SH difference, which largely dissapeared in February as the SH &#8216;caught up&#8217; with the NH cooling.</p>
<p>BTW, the current &#8216;record heatwave; in Australia is restricted to a smallish area of the south coast and is due to heavy rains across the interior.</p>
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