Comments on: Increasing tornadoes or better information gathering? http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/ Commentary on puzzling things in life, nature, science, weather, climate change, technology, and recent news by Anthony Watts Sat, 21 Nov 2009 13:48:30 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Gore demonstrates he doesn’t understand basic meteorology, much less climate « Watts Up With That? http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-45798 Gore demonstrates he doesn’t understand basic meteorology, much less climate « Watts Up With That? Sun, 05 Oct 2008 16:26:10 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-45798 [...] NWS/NOAA. Smaller (F1) tornadoes seem to be on the increase, but not larger ones (F2-F5). This is likely due to increased reporting from Doppler Radar, storm chasers, and news gathering. Small tornadoes that once went unnoticed are now often reported, and make the news. Gore is flat [...] [...] NWS/NOAA. Smaller (F1) tornadoes seem to be on the increase, but not larger ones (F2-F5). This is likely due to increased reporting from Doppler Radar, storm chasers, and news gathering. Small tornadoes that once went unnoticed are now often reported, and make the news. Gore is flat [...]

]]> By: Earth begins to kill people for changing its climate « Watts Up With That? http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-23060 Earth begins to kill people for changing its climate « Watts Up With That? Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:22:17 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-23060 [...] http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering... [...] [...] http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering... [...]

]]> By: David Walton http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5450 David Walton Sat, 09 Feb 2008 20:35:05 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5450 You guys talking radar got my attention. I know next to nothing about radar (except some of the basics). My father, who was a gifted mathematician and went on to become a PhD chemist, was a radar man for the Army in WW2. You guys talking radar got my attention. I know next to nothing about radar (except some of the basics). My father, who was a gifted mathematician and went on to become a PhD chemist, was a radar man for the Army in WW2.

]]> By: BarryW http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5434 BarryW Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:24:25 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5434 I actually supported the development of the WSR-88D from about 1983 to 1987 on the software side. There was a competition between Unisys and Raytheon for the contract. Interesting job since each company had different approaches and strengths, the but extremely frustrating at times. Trying to get them to do unit testing or document what they were doing was a nightmare. They wound up using Fortran because the contract required an ANSII standard language and that was the only one available at the time. Also got to work with some of the researchers from Norman, OK who developed the algorithms for the weather doppler radars. I actually supported the development of the WSR-88D from about 1983 to 1987 on the software side. There was a competition between Unisys and Raytheon for the contract. Interesting job since each company had different approaches and strengths, the but extremely frustrating at times. Trying to get them to do unit testing or document what they were doing was a nightmare. They wound up using Fortran because the contract required an ANSII standard language and that was the only one available at the time. Also got to work with some of the researchers from Norman, OK who developed the algorithms for the weather doppler radars.

]]> By: BobM http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5427 BobM Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:05:34 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5427 The answer is in red. While the total number of reported tornadoes has steadily increased the number of F2's and above has actually decreased from the 1960s and 70s. If you correlate the number of annual F2+'s with temperature I suspect you will find a nice fit .... inversely that is. The answer is in red. While the total number of reported tornadoes has steadily increased the number of F2’s and above has actually decreased from the 1960s and 70s. If you correlate the number of annual F2+’s with temperature I suspect you will find a nice fit …. inversely that is.

]]> By: Gary Gulrud http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5426 Gary Gulrud Sat, 09 Feb 2008 15:48:03 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5426 Interesting 'end times' Wiki Rev., its intriguing to see what some of the authors find worth commenting on but there is some good info in there. Funny they don't follow up on the 'Abomination causing desolation' a bit further with the links to the Moabite worship of Chemosh and the locale of reappearance as the vale of Hinnom. Interesting ‘end times’ Wiki Rev., its intriguing to see what some of the authors find worth commenting on but there is some good info in there. Funny they don’t follow up on the ‘Abomination causing desolation’ a bit further with the links to the Moabite worship of Chemosh and the locale of reappearance as the vale of Hinnom.

]]> By: An Inquirer http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5421 An Inquirer Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:32:00 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5421 One historical note and then a philosophical note. When I was a kid in the 50s and 60s, our farm family would see tornadoes most summers. Sometimes, we would head to the basement. Other times, we would watch them across the valley -- we had a great view. In the last twenty years, I do not remember any tornadoes. (Yes, purely ancedotal, but it never occurred to us to report the tornadoes forty or fifty years ago.) Philosophically, this media and blogging buzz about tornado numbers is another indication of the woeful job our education system is doing in teaching our children/teenagers/adults about data and analysis. I tell my students that emotional competence is a higher order thinking skill, but if you do not understand data and if you cannot analyze cause/effect, then your emotional competence is suspect and maybe even dangerous. Unintended consequences are likely to abound. One historical note and then a philosophical note. When I was a kid in the 50s and 60s, our farm family would see tornadoes most summers. Sometimes, we would head to the basement. Other times, we would watch them across the valley — we had a great view. In the last twenty years, I do not remember any tornadoes. (Yes, purely ancedotal, but it never occurred to us to report the tornadoes forty or fifty years ago.) Philosophically, this media and blogging buzz about tornado numbers is another indication of the woeful job our education system is doing in teaching our children/teenagers/adults about data and analysis. I tell my students that emotional competence is a higher order thinking skill, but if you do not understand data and if you cannot analyze cause/effect, then your emotional competence is suspect and maybe even dangerous. Unintended consequences are likely to abound.

]]> By: BarryW http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5420 BarryW Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:22:29 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5420 The number in the radar name references the year it was developed so the 88 was supposed to start deploying about 1988, although it took some time to get them out there (it was originally supposed to be 1986 as I remember). I assume the other two are circa 1957 and 1974. The 57 and 74's could only identify by "hook echo" since they didn't have a doppler capability to measure winds. Never did find out how well the 88's TVS (Tornado Vortex Signature) algorithm works. Another reason for more reports may be better ground analysis of the damage where they're identifying tornadoes which may have been just thought of as high wind gusts before. <strong>REPLY:</strong> Barry you know your radars. Before the WSR-57 was the WSR-3 which I had the opportunity to work on (actually rebuild). It was part surplus aviation radar converted to ground use. Tubes, cotton insulated wires, 1N21 diodes and an early klystron tube. It had more knobs and internal rheostats than Hansens model E The number in the radar name references the year it was developed so the 88 was supposed to start deploying about 1988, although it took some time to get them out there (it was originally supposed to be 1986 as I remember). I assume the other two are circa 1957 and 1974. The 57 and 74’s could only identify by “hook echo” since they didn’t have a doppler capability to measure winds. Never did find out how well the 88’s TVS (Tornado Vortex Signature) algorithm works.

Another reason for more reports may be better ground analysis of the damage where they’re identifying tornadoes which may have been just thought of as high wind gusts before.

REPLY: Barry you know your radars. Before the WSR-57 was the WSR-3 which I had the opportunity to work on (actually rebuild). It was part surplus aviation radar converted to ground use. Tubes, cotton insulated wires, 1N21 diodes and an early klystron tube. It had more knobs and internal rheostats than Hansens model E

]]> By: David Walton http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5404 David Walton Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:41:01 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5404 Re: "...we have not had an increase in good photo or video evidence of UFO’s, Bigfoot, or Loch Ness." Yeah, but the nonsense on radio has proliferated nicely thanks to the kook-sphere created by Art Bell and carried on by George Noory. Sheesh, those two really make me cringe. Re: “…we have not had an increase in good photo or video evidence of UFO’s, Bigfoot, or Loch Ness.”

Yeah, but the nonsense on radio has proliferated nicely thanks to the kook-sphere created by Art Bell and carried on by George Noory. Sheesh, those two really make me cringe.

]]> By: Stu Miller http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/08/increasing-tornadoes-or-better-information-gathering/#comment-5400 Stu Miller Sat, 09 Feb 2008 05:44:37 +0000 http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=671#comment-5400 Anthony, Could you annotate the graph to indicate when the upgraded radars were installed, or at least give a range of dates for installation of the WSR 57, 74, and 88 radars? How do those dates correlate with the number of small storms being detected? Stu Miller Anthony,

Could you annotate the graph to indicate when the upgraded radars were installed, or at least give a range of dates for installation of the WSR 57, 74, and 88 radars? How do those dates correlate with the number of small storms being detected?

Stu Miller

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