Comments on: Cold and Warm Bias in a Weather Station

By: sunonomo

sunonomo — Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:29:22 +0000

Hmmm, why are you hung up on air temperatures? Other than confusing the basic issues involved, what purpose would measuring air temperature (at ground surface) serve? Meditate on the meaning of latent heat instead…….

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 16:51:42 +0000

I'm confused. You claim that current weather observing stations are biased, yet you make no comment on how these observations were taken historically. In the past, a lot of temperature records were taken on rooftops or in downtown settings. In my opinion, it would be more important to have a precise, standardized data set than an accurate one in gauging the effects of climate change. You seem to be suggesting that we introduce bias into the data set, by altering these stations. Doing so would compromise all the previous data gathered from them. MODERATORS REPLY: The Baltimore station has already been "altered" by NOAA/NWS and was moved to street level in Baltimore. Note that the NWS did similar moves for rooftop stations in San Francisco, and Eureka, both of which I reported on. My view is that accurate AND contiguous records are the best indicator for the surface temperature record, not the mishmash of stations in wide measurement venues we currently have. Apparently NOAA agrees, and has setup the new Climate Reference Network for that very purpose, though it will be awhile before enough data is gathered to show useful trends.

By: MarkW

MarkW — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 13:56:09 +0000

Anthony,

Any air moving over the wet slats would be cooled by evaporation as well as the cold water. Evaporative cooling could also be an issue following summer showers as well. I believe I read somewhere that some of the newer Stevenson screens are made out of plastic, not wood. Since plastic would absorb less water than wood. Especially if the paint (or whitewash) is not fresh, this could add yet another bias to the record.

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Mon, 11 Feb 2008 00:00:43 +0000

What’s with this jealousy over data? Doesn’t it help a scientist, and also science if an institution’s data is made widely available. Doesn’t every time it is cited add prestige to the originator? I can understand proprietary interests, but this seems to go ‘way beyond that.

By: Jeff in Seattle

Jeff in Seattle — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 23:55:21 +0000

A high speed Internet connection is not a requirement for this project at all. All that is needed is a camera, and optionally, a GPS. But we have ways around that too.

Uploading pics works fine on dial-up too, I did it for a long, long time. High speed just makes it faster.

By: peter vd berg

peter vd berg — Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:32:34 +0000

Living in france, he also complains that for 15 years British owner of the data (Climate Reseach Unit de l’Université d’East Anglia, Grande Bretagne, ) denied Peter Jones to publish this data. He just got a partial 2 weeks ago by way of a formal plaint, still they are arguing archive problems for the rest.

By: Raven

Raven — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 23:37:24 +0000

Accordng to AR4 someone came up with a theory that historical measurement techniques for SST temperature had a warm bias. They applied this fudge factor to the SSTs in AR4 and reduced the old temperatures.

Is anyone surprised that the IPCC was quick to correct data biases that makes GW look worse but completely ignores any evidence that the data is biased the other way?

I get nauseous anytime i read someone talking about the ‘quality’ of the IPCC reports.

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:24:51 +0000

No Not working. I suggest pulling it up in French (from R’s link), cut/pasting the line into Google and hit the “translate this page” option when the hit comes up.

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:21:01 +0000

I auto-translated the page and here is the (pretty darn long) link. Hope it works.

The graph definitely lowers past temps. What are the scientific reasons for this?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://skyfal.free.fr/%3Fm%3D200704&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DLe%2Bdernier%2BR%25C3%25A9sum%25C3%25A9%2Bdu%2BGIEC%2B2007%2Ba%2Bd%25C3%25A9crit%2Bune%2Bhausse%2Bde%2Btemp%25C3%25A9rature%2Bde%2B0,74%25C2%25B0C%2Bsur%2B100%2B%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DG

By: Chris D.

Chris D. — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:35:39 +0000

To Bill: I’m pretty sure there is one site on the grounds of St. Bernard Abbey near Cullman that I have wanted to survey for quite a while but haven’t been able to make the trip. Anthony’s site has all the resources you need to locate and plan a survey of the site.

Anthony: I hope you are doing well. This post made me wonder – seeing that there were no footprints, is there also an MMTS on site? I have to also wonder if snow accumulates this way on MMTS, and whether a difference between the two would be yet another bias.

By: An Inquirer

An Inquirer — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:19:48 +0000

Raven,
The link worked for me, but it was in a language I do not understand, probably French. Nevertheless, it was apparent that the graph was highlighting inconsistencies in the historical record.

By: Raven

Raven — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 10:30:48 +0000

That is too bad the link was broken.

It overlaid a temp plot from TAR and another from AR4 and pointed out a number of differences.

You can see what they showed in AR4 Ch3 Figure 3.4 a)

The difference was caused by a change to the algorithm used to process SST.

By: Philip_B

Philip_B — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 09:17:22 +0000

Raven, the link is broken. Also, there has been a persistent pattern of adjusting historical temperatures down to exaggerate the current warming. CA has documented multiple examples.

By: Raven

Raven — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 06:09:00 +0000

This is off topic but I thought it might be of interest to you:

http://skyfal.free.fr/?p=122

It seems like the IPCC is adjusting the historical temps down as time goes on.

By: wattsupwiththat

wattsupwiththat — Sat, 09 Feb 2008 03:42:54 +0000

Actually Bill you can!

A high speed Internet connection is not a requirement for this project at all. All that is needed is a camera, and optionally, a GPS. But we have ways around that too.

If you have a digital camera, you could mail the SD or compact flash memory module from it to me, and I could download to my PC and mail it back.

Or if you don’t have a digital camera, you can pickup a single use one, send it in at the store you bought it at, and they can put the photos on a CD ROM. You could then mail that to me.

CVS pharmacy and other drug stores like Walgreen’s have them:
http://www.time.com/time/gadget/20040825/

Once I have photos from you and notes on the site survey, I can then submit them to the database on your behalf.

If you are interested in pursuing either of these ideas, please let me know. Alabama, Southern TN, and MS have plenty of places that need surveying.

I would welcome the help.