Comments on: How not to measure temperature, part 50. How to make a rural station “urban”

By: Sean McClanders

Sean McClanders — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:29:47 +0000

You yanks are surly thinking! I wonder if Al Gore has the brain cells to ponder the thoughts discussed here? For the sake of all Irishmen will you please keep him in his castle and not let him out!

A wee bit on Brad he is great fellow.

Sean McClanders

By: Surface Stations Ratings | Atmoz

Surface Stations Ratings | Atmoz — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 02:38:51 +0000

[...] browsing the Internets for fun things to read, I happened across this post at Watts Up With That: How Not to Measure Temperature. The station in question is the one on Mt. [...]

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 20:53:00 +0000

“As an engineer I would say there is no way to correct the data from this site to account for the various problems. The only solution is to exclude it from the database. That brings me to my question; is there a plan to determine the US temperature record using only stations rated 1 or 2?”

Like the Rev says.

But That’s ony 63 stations! (And a mere 19 of them are CRN1. (A good MMTS is hard to find. Another quandary for Demosthenes.)

On top of that, there’s a westward bias (and the west is where most of the actual warming did occur).

REPLY: I suspect we’ll find more CRN1/2 stations in the midwest, in the middle of the plains. For now though, most of the area is under snow, and not many new stations are being surveyed. When the summer travel season picks up again, so will surveys.

By: moptop

moptop — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:59:49 +0000

Has anybody ever looked at Cleveland Ohio? talk about a discontinuous record.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gistemp/gistemp_station.py?id=425725240000&data_set=1&num_neighbors=1

By: David Segeta

David Segeta — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:47:45 +0000

As an engineer I would say there is no way to correct the data from this site to account for the various problems. The only solution is to exclude it from the database. That brings me to my question; is there a plan to determine the US temperature record using only stations rated 1 or 2?

REPLY: yes there is, but we need to fill in missing areas first so that we get better spatial representivity. See the map on the main page of http://www.surfacestations.org

By: I Know That Guy « N 40 ° 35.414′ W 122 ° 23.806′

I Know That Guy « N 40 ° 35.414′ W 122 ° 23.806′ — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:17:18 +0000

[...] just noticed that he has a hawt post on the WordPress Dashboard. In August 2007, due to collaborative work between Watts and McIntyre, NASA’s GISS issued a [...]

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:00:41 +0000

That’s gotta be a CRN5, then, doesn’t it? Heat sinks and waste heat within 10 feet and all.

REPLY: It could go either way as a 4 or a 5, but without measurments, I can’t say for certain

By: Larry Sheldon

Larry Sheldon — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:42:31 +0000

For what ever it is worth, I agree with the additional findings regarding that ecru building. I am satisfied that it is not, you should pardon the expression, cold storage, but some kind of electrically active equipment room. and the auto start warning would be required for A/C condensers, air compressors, engine-driven power plants, … which can be summarized as “warm stuff”.

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:59:25 +0000

WATTS ADJUSTMENT (to 3 Significant Digits)
482 Stations Observed

Low: +1.99 Revs
Medium: +3.01 Revs
High: +4.03 Revs

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:26:04 +0000

Results So Far (to 2 sig. digits)
Based on 460 Observed stations

Low: +1.98 Revs
Medium: +2.99 Revs
High: +4.00 Revs

By: LifeTrek

LifeTrek — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:16:15 +0000

My comment appears to have been eaten by the spam filter, but here is a repeat:
More then likely that “storage unit” is a back up communications power unit for the fire department. Below the Halogen sign is one reading:

Caution:
Lead Acid batteries …
Corrosive liquid …
Energized Electrical Circuits …

Most probably a heat source with those warnings. Transformer, charger, electronics.
DKK

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:01:37 +0000

“Quick! Somebody create an adjustment equation.”

Quick and dirty.

THE WATTS ADJUSTMENT

Low: (%CRN1*0)+(%CRN2*0)+(%CRN3*1)+(%CRN4*2)+(%CRN5*5)
Medium: (%CRN1*0)+(%CRN2*0.25)+(%CRN3*1.5)+(%CRN4*3)+(%CRN5*7.5)
High: (%CRN1*0)+(%CRN2*0.5)+(%CRN3*2)+(%CRN4*4)+(%CRN5*10)

Results to be expressed in “Revs”, representing offsets in degrees C.

Those familiar with this site will know instantly what I mean.

%CRN1-5 = Percentage of CRN1 through CRN5 ratings for surface stations.

Of course, there’s only one way to check. (I take it you got my email, Rev?)

By: crosspatch

crosspatch — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:45:52 +0000

“which cautions against automatic equipment which may start at any time.”

That is probably a backup power generator for the electronics shelter which would start up automatically when mains power fails.

By: SteveSadlov

SteveSadlov — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:13:28 +0000

Even worse it’s on the south facing slope, on the north side of the road. Much more scrubby, less forested than the south side, IIRC. Talk about a micro climate …

By: George M

George M — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:59:14 +0000

Ah, yes, I forgot: “Click for larger images”. Thanks, Anthony. When I do, I can see the electric power drop to the top of the wooden pole behind the building, and Larry, that’s a flag, not a wind sock. I can also read some of the placards in the larger images, one cautioning that the building is protected with a Halon fire suppression system, indicating a large amount of expensive electronics inside. That antenna is not complex enough for a cell site, however, so it must be telephone stuff. The most intersting placard is the one way in the back corner, on the retaining timbers, which cautions against automatic equipment which may start at any time. Implying something with exposed moving parts and just maybe produces some heat? And, the rain gauge is protected against wetness only from some directions.

By: Larry Sheldon

Larry Sheldon — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:06:52 +0000

That building is almost certainly NOT a storage building. It is likely a telephone central office, a cellphone module or a radio station. That sliver-colored box peeking out from the back of the module is likely an air-conditioner condenser.

And the presence of a wind sock implies helicopter traffic. And a rain gauge under the trees? Really?

By: jmrSudbury

jmrSudbury — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 14:42:57 +0000

Using another site to remind me of the Ideal Gas law, how’s this for an equation:

T=nRT/PV-Ff

Where T = Temperature in Kelvin, n = number of moles, R = the Ideal Gas Constant, P = Pressure in atmospheres, V = volume in liters, and Ff = fudge factor seeing as how AGW is not ideal.

John M Reynolds

By: George M

George M — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 12:55:08 +0000

That isn’t strictly a storage shelter next to the screen. I can’t quite read the Caution and Warning placards, but I’ll bet there is sometning active in there, like maybe a standby power generator. Or maybe the radios connected to the antenna(s?) on the pole behind the structure. I think the auto tailpipe exhausting into the Stevenson may be the best way to keep it from getting too cold, though.

By: Evan Jones

Evan Jones — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:30:46 +0000

“Lights=0″ (As the Audience explodes with laughter.)

Here is a s far as i get. The gold speck here is that daily observation is under 5%.

http://jisao.washington.edu/greg/southwest/states/NV/265400.html#Top

Up and away,
COOP-A!

By: Russ

Russ — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 04:00:02 +0000

Anthony,

Does the station have a number? There is one at 36.26N -115.22W. It is at the Desert Game Range, Number 262243 according to the COOP list at the WRCC in Reno. The Mt Charleston station is at 36.26N -115.64 Would there be a COOP that close. There is no COOP listed for Mt Charleston in the WRCC data base.

REPLY: It is station COOP ID 265400