<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Warming Trend: PDO And Solar Correlate Better Than CO2</title>
	<atom:link href="http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/</link>
	<description>The world&#039;s most viewed site on global warming and climate change</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 29 May 2012 12:26:10 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: New Paper Shows Lack of Correlation Between Temperature and CO2 &#171; Anti Oligarch</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-566509</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[New Paper Shows Lack of Correlation Between Temperature and CO2 &#171; Anti Oligarch]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 09:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-566509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Warming Trend: PDO And Solar Correlate Better Than CO2 [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Warming Trend: PDO And Solar Correlate Better Than CO2 [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-564409</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 22:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-564409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] e il documento e&#039; un paper scientifico.  http://icecap.us/images/uploads/US_T...since_1895.pdf  Wattsupwiththat riassume il paper e mostra le cose + significative, questi i risultati di correlazione:   Questa la [...]

[En Ingles por favor.   Mi espanol (y italia) is muy poquito y muy mal.   8&lt;)  Robt]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] e il documento e&#039; un paper scientifico.  <a href="http://icecap.us/images/uploads/US_T" rel="nofollow">http://icecap.us/images/uploads/US_T</a>&#8230;since_1895.pdf  Wattsupwiththat riassume il paper e mostra le cose + significative, questi i risultati di correlazione:   Questa la [...]</p>
<p>[En Ingles por favor.   Mi espanol (y italia) is muy poquito y muy mal.   8&lt;)  Robt]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: rushmikey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-564227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[rushmikey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 16:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-564227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Perhaps this posting might have made some sense if a global temperature chart was used instead of the US temperature chart. Typical of the shoddy and innacurate posts of late...has WUWT lost its Mojo?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps this posting might have made some sense if a global temperature chart was used instead of the US temperature chart. Typical of the shoddy and innacurate posts of late&#8230;has WUWT lost its Mojo?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kipp Alpert</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-84282</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kipp Alpert]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 22:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-84282</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kipp Alpert:I see the game is to make the sun twice as hot as it is, to justify the warming that has increased. I have never seen so much junk science in my life.
Don&#039;t forget to bash Dr. Hansen and Al Gore.We need scapegoats. If you base your whole sceince on invalid assumptions, then it might look true. Someone said that the PDO leads ENSO? When you measure CO2 and Solar irradiance, you have it backwards.Or don&#039;t you accept satellite data either. How do you know so much about the PDO, and it&#039;s timeline, when no one really knows. They think it may be cold, or hot, due to deep ocean currents, Enso, and the warm pool. That is just to start the argument.  Your charts look like a pre-school coloring book.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kipp Alpert:I see the game is to make the sun twice as hot as it is, to justify the warming that has increased. I have never seen so much junk science in my life.<br />
Don&#8217;t forget to bash Dr. Hansen and Al Gore.We need scapegoats. If you base your whole sceince on invalid assumptions, then it might look true. Someone said that the PDO leads ENSO? When you measure CO2 and Solar irradiance, you have it backwards.Or don&#8217;t you accept satellite data either. How do you know so much about the PDO, and it&#8217;s timeline, when no one really knows. They think it may be cold, or hot, due to deep ocean currents, Enso, and the warm pool. That is just to start the argument.  Your charts look like a pre-school coloring book.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The Rush to Climate Change Laws &#124; Hennessy's View</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-55738</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[The Rush to Climate Change Laws &#124; Hennessy's View]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Nov 2008 16:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-55738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] the scientific consensus on global warming might be, the fact is that no positive correlation exists between increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 and temperature. People like Al Gore make the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the scientific consensus on global warming might be, the fact is that no positive correlation exists between increasing levels of atmospheric CO2 and temperature. People like Al Gore make the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: noon</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-42020</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[noon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:10:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-42020</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there a theory supporting the idea that PDO+AMO is driving the climate, and not that climate is driving these oscillations?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a theory supporting the idea that PDO+AMO is driving the climate, and not that climate is driving these oscillations?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: oleg pokrovsky</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-41588</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[oleg pokrovsky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-41588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dear Colleague,

Would you, please, to send me e-mail to contact 
to you in more flexible way.
In fact, I worked with the same data, but use
more comprehensive stat.techniques.
Best regards,
Oleg Pokrovsky]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Colleague,</p>
<p>Would you, please, to send me e-mail to contact<br />
to you in more flexible way.<br />
In fact, I worked with the same data, but use<br />
more comprehensive stat.techniques.<br />
Best regards,<br />
Oleg Pokrovsky</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dscott</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-30141</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dscott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 19:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-30141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I believe I now have the answer on the PDO + AMO leading TSI.  http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/IanwilsonForum2008.pdf

What this guy is saying is essentially that LOD leads PDO by about 5 years and that TSI and LOD are driven by the same causes but neither TSI or LOD are interacting.  Think of it as a bat hitting two balls at the same time, the balls correlate as in timing of movement but neither affects the other, they just have the same bat as the cause of the movement.  Interesting hypothesis.  What his claim is that LOD, i.e. the rotation speed of the earth is what influences the PDO via ocean currents if I understand it correctly.  The site doesn&#039;t directly say coriolis effect, however I believe that ocean currents are driven not only by winds and salinity but also by earth&#039;s rotation like the wind patterns.  http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/coriolis_effect.html

Now taking this LOD and comparing to your graphs above you may get the high R^2 value you are looking to highly correlate.  LOD in milliseconds certaintly doesn&#039;t have enough cummulative effect as far as the amount of energy from daylight but it might have enough as far as ocean and air currents are concerned.  Can you establish what the LOD has been since 2000?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe I now have the answer on the PDO + AMO leading TSI.  <a href="http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/IanwilsonForum2008.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lavoisier.com.au/papers/articles/IanwilsonForum2008.pdf</a></p>
<p>What this guy is saying is essentially that LOD leads PDO by about 5 years and that TSI and LOD are driven by the same causes but neither TSI or LOD are interacting.  Think of it as a bat hitting two balls at the same time, the balls correlate as in timing of movement but neither affects the other, they just have the same bat as the cause of the movement.  Interesting hypothesis.  What his claim is that LOD, i.e. the rotation speed of the earth is what influences the PDO via ocean currents if I understand it correctly.  The site doesn&#8217;t directly say coriolis effect, however I believe that ocean currents are driven not only by winds and salinity but also by earth&#8217;s rotation like the wind patterns.  <a href="http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/coriolis_effect.html" rel="nofollow">http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/coriolis_effect.html</a></p>
<p>Now taking this LOD and comparing to your graphs above you may get the high R^2 value you are looking to highly correlate.  LOD in milliseconds certaintly doesn&#8217;t have enough cummulative effect as far as the amount of energy from daylight but it might have enough as far as ocean and air currents are concerned.  Can you establish what the LOD has been since 2000?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chriscolose</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-13790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chriscolose]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-13790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael, there is very shaky evidence for anytime warmer than the late 20th century at any point during the Holocene (globally, a lot of the evidence you cite is regional, and Europe was certainy comparable to today at least in medieval times), though the uncertanties in paleoclimate reconstructions are large enough that it could be possible-- though you&#039;d be comparing the peak of one warm period to the start of another.  

Not to knock the site I am posting on and that you enjoy reading, but I strongly encourage you to read more academic sources on the subject (reports from IPCC, NAS are good and introductory textbooks, perhaps from David Archer, or if you have a solid calculus/physics background, Ray Pierrehumberts), because there are a lot of mistakes in the analysis done here.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, there is very shaky evidence for anytime warmer than the late 20th century at any point during the Holocene (globally, a lot of the evidence you cite is regional, and Europe was certainy comparable to today at least in medieval times), though the uncertanties in paleoclimate reconstructions are large enough that it could be possible&#8211; though you&#8217;d be comparing the peak of one warm period to the start of another.  </p>
<p>Not to knock the site I am posting on and that you enjoy reading, but I strongly encourage you to read more academic sources on the subject (reports from IPCC, NAS are good and introductory textbooks, perhaps from David Archer, or if you have a solid calculus/physics background, Ray Pierrehumberts), because there are a lot of mistakes in the analysis done here.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Thompson</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-13551</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Thompson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 May 2008 06:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-13551</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a fascinating site and the information is amazing.  I have a great interest in the GW argument and GCC in general.  I am not a scientist but have a good grasp of the theories.  If someone could take the time, I would be interested in the following.  If man has such an impact on climate at this point in history, what was the factor that caused the earth to be warmer from 300 to 800 AD than it is today?  The evidence for this is partly supported by excavations in greenland showing an agricultural exhistance during that period prior to a cooling phase which drove the inhabitants out.  Also the types of crops including Grapes that were able to be cultivated in northern europe and england. 

I have to mention I play poker with a former governor who was touting the Carbon exchange as the greatest economic institution we will found.  This scared the hell out of me and makes me ask who benefits. Who  collects the juice?  His claim is a ten degree increase in global temps and flooding displacing 10m people.  Again, how much have the worlds oceans receded since the 3rd century.  Obviously by his logic there should have been substantially more landmass.  

Again not a scientist, just curious about the debate.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a fascinating site and the information is amazing.  I have a great interest in the GW argument and GCC in general.  I am not a scientist but have a good grasp of the theories.  If someone could take the time, I would be interested in the following.  If man has such an impact on climate at this point in history, what was the factor that caused the earth to be warmer from 300 to 800 AD than it is today?  The evidence for this is partly supported by excavations in greenland showing an agricultural exhistance during that period prior to a cooling phase which drove the inhabitants out.  Also the types of crops including Grapes that were able to be cultivated in northern europe and england. </p>
<p>I have to mention I play poker with a former governor who was touting the Carbon exchange as the greatest economic institution we will found.  This scared the hell out of me and makes me ask who benefits. Who  collects the juice?  His claim is a ten degree increase in global temps and flooding displacing 10m people.  Again, how much have the worlds oceans receded since the 3rd century.  Obviously by his logic there should have been substantially more landmass.  </p>
<p>Again not a scientist, just curious about the debate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Yves</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-10295</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Yves]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 01:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-10295</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Charles,

You say: &quot;That human activity could affect climate is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary validation&quot;
I think it&#039;s plausible in terms of human perception. There is an interesting post about that in Donner&#039;s Maribo, about the earth as man&#039;s domain vs the sky as god&#039;s domain:

simondonner.blogspot.com/2008/02/tom-delay-and-believing-in-climate.html

OTOH science cares only about measurable inputs: GHG emissions from fossil fuels (btw there is an erratum in your figure, the 22 billions tonnes are CO2 and correspond to 6 GT of carbon), land use change, livestock,..., and that makes the claim less extraordinary, but only in science and, if the &quot;extraordinary claim&quot; feeling is pervasive, that can lead to some cognitive dissonance even among scientists and other &quot;educated&quot; people. 

Best

Yves]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Charles,</p>
<p>You say: &#8220;That human activity could affect climate is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary validation&#8221;<br />
I think it&#8217;s plausible in terms of human perception. There is an interesting post about that in Donner&#8217;s Maribo, about the earth as man&#8217;s domain vs the sky as god&#8217;s domain:</p>
<p>simondonner.blogspot.com/2008/02/tom-delay-and-believing-in-climate.html</p>
<p>OTOH science cares only about measurable inputs: GHG emissions from fossil fuels (btw there is an erratum in your figure, the 22 billions tonnes are CO2 and correspond to 6 GT of carbon), land use change, livestock,&#8230;, and that makes the claim less extraordinary, but only in science and, if the &#8220;extraordinary claim&#8221; feeling is pervasive, that can lead to some cognitive dissonance even among scientists and other &#8220;educated&#8221; people. </p>
<p>Best</p>
<p>Yves</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: charles ashurst</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-6728</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[charles ashurst]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2008 20:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-6728</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The hypothesis that the correlation between earth temperature and solar irradiance is far better than the correlation to between temperature  and CO2 could very well be the case, but doesn&#039;t mean we&#039;re off the hook with respect to CO2.  Solar irradiance is the main driver of climate and does have a more immediate effect.  Long term subtle influences, however, are still possible.

As an analogy consider an airplane on a certain compass course.  The fluctations in its course correlate very closely to the pilot&#039;s actions on the stick.  More subtle and less detectable, though, there&#039;s a gentle but persistent South Westerly breeze.  The correlation between course and this breeze don&#039;t correlate nearly as well as do the pilot&#039;s actions and course.  Nonetheless, you ignore that breeze, you could end up miles and miles off course from where you thought you&#039;d be.

That human activity could affect climate is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary validation.  At the same time, however, the claim that huamns can dump 22 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere every year and this has no effect is even more extraordinary a claim.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hypothesis that the correlation between earth temperature and solar irradiance is far better than the correlation to between temperature  and CO2 could very well be the case, but doesn&#8217;t mean we&#8217;re off the hook with respect to CO2.  Solar irradiance is the main driver of climate and does have a more immediate effect.  Long term subtle influences, however, are still possible.</p>
<p>As an analogy consider an airplane on a certain compass course.  The fluctations in its course correlate very closely to the pilot&#8217;s actions on the stick.  More subtle and less detectable, though, there&#8217;s a gentle but persistent South Westerly breeze.  The correlation between course and this breeze don&#8217;t correlate nearly as well as do the pilot&#8217;s actions and course.  Nonetheless, you ignore that breeze, you could end up miles and miles off course from where you thought you&#8217;d be.</p>
<p>That human activity could affect climate is an extraordinary claim that requires extraordinary validation.  At the same time, however, the claim that huamns can dump 22 billion tons of carbon into the atmosphere every year and this has no effect is even more extraordinary a claim.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan Grey</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-6165</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alan Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-6165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just wondering if the correlation coefficient for PDO&amp;TSI goes up or down if you also include CO2?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wondering if the correlation coefficient for PDO&amp;TSI goes up or down if you also include CO2?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Another Global Temp Index Dives in Jan08, this time HadCRUT &#171; Watts Up With That?</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-6041</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Another Global Temp Index Dives in Jan08, this time HadCRUT &#171; Watts Up With That?]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:14:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-6041</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] all show sharp drops in the last year. We are in an extended solar minimum, we have a shift in the Pacific Decadal Oscillation to a cold state, and we are seeing arctic ice extents setting new records and rebounding from the summer [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all show sharp drops in the last year. We are in an extended solar minimum, we have a shift in the Pacific Decadal Oscillation to a cold state, and we are seeing arctic ice extents setting new records and rebounding from the summer [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dscott</title>
		<link>http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/warming-trend-pdo-and-solar-correlate-better-than-co2/#comment-5487</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dscott]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 17:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/?p=597#comment-5487</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[check out comment #262 at climate audit http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2679 Cosmic ray vs El Nino index]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>check out comment #262 at climate audit <a href="http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2679" rel="nofollow">http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=2679</a> Cosmic ray vs El Nino index</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

